Advance in Leadership Pt. 1 - Lia Grünhage

As part of our Advance in Leadership series, Christina had an exciting conversation with Lia Grünhage, co-founder of “10 More In”. In the interview, which is also available as a live session on Instagram, the two talk about effective leadership, dealing with mistakes and the importance of relationships in leadership. Lia shares important insights from her own leadership career and from coaching sessions at “10 More In”, a leadership academy for women in leadership. We have summarized the most interesting questions and answers for you here.

Christina Stahl: Lia, for those who don't know you yet, could you briefly tell us who you are and what exactly 10 More In is?

Lia Grünhage: Yes, I would love to. I'm Lia Grünhage and I founded 10 More In two years ago with Lea-Sophie Cramer. Before that, we worked together at Amorelie for a long time. Then we briefly parted ways before founding 10 More In together in 2022, a leadership academy for women. This is a six-week program to increase your own leadership effectiveness. At the time, we realized that the issues that prevent women from taking up management positions can be dealt with very well in coaching sessions. And that's exactly how we got to know each other, Christina.

Christina Stahl: Yes, and I am still so grateful to you, because Hans is now my coach. And that was really two years ago, and it's so nice to have come full circle. I have one more question in advance: you also worked with Lea before you founded the company. Our COO is actually my former mentor. Did it help you that you had worked together for so long before founding the company together? Or would you say that you can also find the perfect co-founder through a good selection process and with clear criteria?

Lia Grünhage: Well, I think finding good working relationships is like entering into a relationship. We had a professional relationship for five years and then decided to “marry”, i.e. start a business together. Of course, after five years we know each other very well and know what makes the other person tick. But it doesn't always work that way when you've known someone for so long. You try to get to know each other as well as you can and then you get involved. The relationship may last ten years, a lifetime or even just two years.

Christina Stahl: I absolutely agree with you. But now let's move on to the topic of leadership. In your opinion, what are the key qualities that make an effective leader?

Lia Grünhage: I think it is very important to first define how we think about leadership. I myself grew up with an image of leadership that was strongly defined by content. It is often the case - and this was also the case in my first management role - that someone is very, very good in terms of content and then rises to a management position. But I think there has been a paradigm shift here in recent years. Simon Sinek, for example, says: “Leadership is not being in charge, but it is taking care of those in your charge.”
There has been a shift away from “having answers” towards “developing answers together with people”. This is what we call leadership via the relationship level. As soon as people come together in an organization, relationships are formed. And if the relationship is disrupted, nothing works in terms of content. It is therefore extremely important to manage these relationships well.

Christina Stahl: Yes, I notice that in myself again and again. If you look at it from an emotional and a rational, numbers-driven side, I am absolutely the latter. And for me, one of the biggest things I've learned is that I have to meet people where they are and talk to them on the level they need. But to do that, I also need to know what their needs are, otherwise it's useless.
How exactly can you learn this relationship level?

Lia Grünhage: When you say, “I make myself aware of the relationship level”, in other words that you try to lead people at the relationship level, then an important realization is that 50% of the relationship comes from myself. This means that in order to be able to lead at this level, it is first important to know and understand yourself. And if you transfer this to your team - or to the managers who may be watching - how can I foster these skills in my team members?

Christina Stahl: Is there anything you can do as a manager to support the team in these skills?

Lia Grünhage: I believe that we humans learn from what happens around us - be it through culture, leadership or working methods. I should consistently exemplify the leadership model that I think is right. On the other hand, it is important to give people the space to try things out for themselves. Ultimately, it's about handing over responsibility and giving people the opportunity to gain their own experience. What I didn't understand for a long time was that handing over responsibility also means handing over the answer.

Christina Stahl: How do you adapt your management style to the needs of the different people in your team?

Lia Grünhage: The first thing I do with every employee is to create a strengths and weaknesses profile. This is important because strengths and weaknesses are often mutually dependent. For example, if I find it difficult to brainstorm openly, the advantage of this is that I can very quickly bring clarity to things and approach them in a structured way. That's one aspect - being aware of who you have in front of you. On the other hand, there is always a spectrum of leadership styles. A good overview of this is provided by the Harvard Business Review, which highlights various leadership dimensions. There is no longer just one leadership style, but you have your own point on this spectrum. For example, I am someone who is very much in the here and now and executes. However, I also move along this spectrum when necessary.

Christina Stahl: Yes, that's super interesting. You mentioned at one point or another that you've also made a few mistakes when it comes to leadership. As a perfectionist, I realize that I'm always very hard on myself when I make mistakes in leadership. It's not a mistake in an Excel spreadsheet that I can simply correct, but affects real people. How do you deal with yourself in such cases in order to develop a certain acceptance and tolerance for yourself?

Lia Grünhage: Leadership is, to a certain extent, dealing with each other in a human way. As long as there is respect and mutual appreciation, mistakes are allowed to happen - there is no other way. Jürgen Klopp was once asked why he is so good at dealing with defeats in soccer and he said: “Well, I want to win, and in order to win, I have to lose.” And I think that applies to everything in life. If I want to be in a leadership position, mistakes are part of it and I can learn from them. And that's another thing: this radical honesty. I'm very honest in my leadership - both in the positive aspects and in the areas that don't work for me. That doesn't mean that what doesn't work overshadows everything. It happens simultaneously, just as we humans exist in all our facets at the same time.

Christina Stahl: Yes, I have to think about one or two situations I've been in. It really is like this: if you make a mistake, you really have to own up to it. In this context, we have also addressed the issue of error culture. Of course you can make mistakes, but you also have to take responsibility for them. Today, we also took another look at the topic of feedback, including your 360-degree feedback.

Lia Grünhage: Very cool.

Christina Stahl: I believe that everyone can learn, regardless of whether the feedback comes from above, below or from peers. That's why I'm really looking forward to the whole process.

Lia Grünhage: I don't think the institution of 360-degree feedback alone ensures that we get honest feedback. One of our coaches always says: “Good leadership organizes resistance and dissent.” It is also a skill to give the team the feeling that critical feedback can really be expressed. And that develops when we ourselves are honest about our own mistakes. It is then the culture that supports 360-degree feedback or not.

Christina Stahl: That's a very good point. I hadn't thought about it at our company because transparency is so important to us and we always say: “Please get in touch if you have something on your mind.” Maybe one more thought on this, because I find it so relieving myself: “Good leadership organizes resistance.” I used to find it very stressful when there were people in the organization who didn't like what I was doing. But then I learned to see this opposition as a valuable counterweight. I think that's often a question of personal framing.

Lia Grünhage: For example, in our management circle at 10 More In - Lea, Helena and I - we can really get into each other's hair. It's not always the case that the three of us agree. But we still try to show appreciation for the different opinions, because in the end there is no absolute truth anyway.

Christina Stahl: Yes, I have to smile because there are three of us in the leadership team: my husband, my former mentor and me. We are all very different, but we can complement each other really well. I have one last question from the community: What are your top 3 book tips or podcasts for female leaders?

Lia Grünhage: I'm listening to “The Diary of a CEO” podcast a lot at the moment. I think it's great. I can also recommend “Hotel Matze” as a German podcast - there are just so many interesting people on there. For me, “Untamed” by Glennon Doyle is absolutely fundamental literature; Lea and I like to call it our “bible”. And of course I have to mention the 10 More In program last.

Christina Stahl: You know I sent you the questions beforehand - I could ask what feels like 10,000 more questions, but we've already reached the end of the time. Thank you so much for taking the time.

Lia Grünhage: With pleasure, it was a lot of fun, thank you!